Forum:Episode Images: Revamp
I've looked over the Episode Images, and I gotta say, it's not good. All of them are collages with four scenes. I have a new idea: why not just choose one image that best represents the episode and do it from there? I mean, who needs four collages for one episode? Like, for example, Episode 483, instead of this four image collage, why not use this one picture that best represents the episode, of Ace dying with a smile? One picture that represents the most important point of the episode is better than a four images collage that ruins the effects. Yatanogarasu 19:00, May 27, 2011 (UTC) Example This is what I mean for Episode 483, "Looking for the Answer - Fire Fist Ace Dies on the Battlefield", where the one image of Ace dying is best to represent the entire episode's situation, while the other collage of Akainu punching Ace, Dadan telling Ace off, Ace crying, and Luffy crying is hard to pinpoint the true point of the episode. Yatanogarasu 19:07, May 27, 2011 (UTC) Discussion Starts Here Well it would go for some episodes, but in some cases not all, like in Impel Down where there's allot happening and you can't define a most important moment for it, also that would be very time-consuming, maybe even discussing the best picture for an episode. In some cases like your example it would be good. 19:11, May 27, 2011 (UTC) Who provides the collage pictures? They do have great quality and if the editor in question stops providing them one day we would have a huge inconsistency. 19:12, May 27, 2011 (UTC) To Ricizubi: for a lot of things happening episodes, we will just choose one image that seems good enough, and be satisfied with it. After all, too many images are a spoiler, which is against the rules. If we are not satisfied with the image, then we can change it to another one that is more satisfactory. Also, collages are considered against the rules in this wiki, unless it is for talk images. Yatanogarasu 19:20, May 27, 2011 (UTC) To Jinbe: several editors provide the collages, they just take four images and glue them together. Yatanogarasu 19:22, May 27, 2011 (UTC) To be honest, I don't like collages. But I'm not sure if they really count as spoiler, since if we are really honest - everyone who wants to avoid spoilers should NOT DARE to visit any related wikia to begin with. Where are these rules about collages btw? I found a few on articles and would get rid of them, if you could link me a guideline or decision/whatever. 19:27, May 27, 2011 (UTC) The four image panel fit best the role of summarize the episode, I don't see any problem with that. What you say is right, but if we choose only one image I think there would be discussions over the one to be chosen. 19:30, May 27, 2011 (UTC) If they are to be considered spoilers than I agree with one being enough. These pictures are great, but one is enough, either way, it'll still take some time to do it. 19:31, May 27, 2011 (UTC) Get rid of collages and make them like how every other article is by having the pictures in the respective spots next to the plot summary. Also that's BS. There's no rule against spoilers. SeaTerror 19:35, May 27, 2011 (UTC) So, should we start eliminating the collage things and start using one picture to represent an entire episode? I mean, after all, the chapter pages uses a single page to represent the thing, not four pages slapped together. 01:00, May 31, 2011 (UTC) Well, in the case of the chapter pages, it's merely the cover page or a color spread, which don't really represent the chapters themselves. I prefer the current images personally. Rather than a boiling down an episode to a single moment, multiple moments are represented, which is something I hadn't seen on any other wikia prior to visiting this one. Memnarc 06:40, May 31, 2011 (UTC) :Well, for other wikis, as well as Wikipedia itself, episode pictures are restricted to one picture. Take The Simpsons episodes on Wikipedia, they are all one pictures each. 07:03, May 31, 2011 (UTC) ::That is his point, actually. sff9 (talk) 09:34, May 31, 2011 (UTC) I'm against it. There are "official 4 pictures" provided by anime official site, and choosing one picture will probably make edit wars. --Klobis 13:11, May 31, 2011 (UTC) 'Spoiler' is the best way to say it...But isn't a spoiler also when we show Ace dead??And a lot of things happen in an episode..We cannot decide in like, every episode which is the most important scene..My vote,leave it as it is.. 14:11, May 31, 2011 (UTC) I agree with Klobis. What the people said about using one image is right, but we have already have 4 panels for each episode and I don't see any reasons to change everything to one image. About why Wikipedia is using only one image, is because it can't flood the page with copyrighted images (like we do...), if you take a look the Wikipedia pages have a way less pictures on them then ours. But then we should remove the plot images too. For the chapter there is the cover so there is no need to make a collage, if there wes a episode cover we would have probably used it. 14:22, May 31, 2011 (UTC) As long as the one picture that you post describes the entire episode completly, the idea of having only one pictures is acceptable. but if the pictures is choosed recklessness then it will only make the reader of the wiki confused. i still think that the idea of four picture is still good and helpful but if the rest of the wiki members are up for a change then count me in.Monkey.D.Me 01:37, June 1, 2011 (UTC) I say keep the 4 images. If we had to decide on one image for each episode do you realize how many arguments are going to span over the 500 episodes that exist (thus far) on what's "perfect"? Plus the images are unique to our wiki and gives a more rounded idea of all the things that happen in each episode. Four image description is better way to describe episode.I think you want to say why can't we use one image to describe the imporatant scene from episode, but Seriously four images is prefect way. Stone Roger 07:26, June 12, 2011 (UTC) Vote Start It's been a week since the forum started, and no new opinion/discussion added for over three days. Since the two opinions are about equal, let's start voting. Place your signature under the opinion you favor the most. 22:12, June 5, 2011 (UTC) Conditions for editors to vote: * Must have no less than 500 edits, doesn't matter where. * Must have been registered for over one month. * Votes end in two weeks time: June 19, 2011. * Votes may be changed during the time if voters have a change of mind. Use four pictures for episode image # # #Klobis 00:38, June 6, 2011 (UTC) # 16:59, June 7, 2011 (UTC) # //there are four official images for each episode. #Ruxax 21:41, June 10, 2011 (UTC) #Stone Roger 07:24, June 12, 2011 (UTC) #Genocyber (talk) 07:19, February 15, 2013 (UTC) Use one picture for episode image # 22:18, June 5, 2011 (UTC) # 16:55, June 7, 2011 (UTC) # SeaTerror 16:50, June 8, 2011 (UTC) I already said how the best way to do it is. Post-voting Discussions/Opinions Alright, 7 vs. 3, we'll keep the four-images collages. 17:37, June 19, 2011 (UTC) Episode Collages Part 2 It's about time we brought this back up. I think we should get rid of the collages and use the images throughout an episode summary. 4 max in the summary with the episode title in the infobox. So it would be 5 images total throughout the article. We can use whichever image we want to use including the official Toei images. Kuro had good images too when he did his collages. SeaTerror (talk) 22:12, February 9, 2013 (UTC) The 4 Toei images are usually good enough to use in the summary, so those would be all we would need. Also, when he says episode title, he means this. I noticed above people had problems using a single image from the episode because it "wasn't official", but the title of the episode and the background is as official as you're going to get (it's in the actual episode!). 22:14, February 9, 2013 (UTC) The episode collages are great, because they give a good idea of what actually happens in the episodes, where the title cards don't really do that (since they'd be raws). That being said though, I do think we could use the title cards, but not at the expense of the collages. Perhaps use both in the infobox, or use some kind of switch template? 01:21, February 10, 2013 (UTC) 4 collage images go in the summary, title card in the infobox. 01:32, February 10, 2013 (UTC) I said we could put the images throughout the summary instead. SeaTerror (talk) 01:33, February 10, 2013 (UTC) I don't like the idea of having the title cards since it is always just Japanese text over a picture, and sometimes the picture is used more than once, and other times it's just black. Using title cards don't sound like they'd surve much of a purpose. Also, using the images throughout the article might not work since they're usually pretty short. It will just be a cluster. 01:33, February 10, 2013 (UTC) Long summaries are never short. Anyways, in some cases, we wouldn't use all 4 of the images. The title cards are usually different, and it makes more sense to use them, just like we use chapter covers for chapters and not 4 images from the chapter. 01:35, February 10, 2013 (UTC) Also, it stops us from having to edit the 4 images together, since merged images "technically" aren't allowed. 01:36, February 10, 2013 (UTC) Long summaries aren't long enough to have 4 or 5 different images throughout it without it being a clustered mess. 01:38, February 10, 2013 (UTC) If they're truly long, then yes they are. Once again. Not all of them need 4. 01:40, February 10, 2013 (UTC) First thing first. Are those 4 image collages official or did someone Photoshopped them together? If they are done by someone, then I prefer a title card (like Bleach), or at the best, one image that best suits in summarizing the entire episode (like Naruto). 07:42, February 10, 2013 (UTC) Only the 4 images are official. They still have to be merged together. 07:52, February 10, 2013 (UTC) Wait, so Toei Animation chooses 4 images and paste them together themselves, while the title card is fan-made? Is that what you're saying? 07:55, February 10, 2013 (UTC) No no. Toei posts 4 images, that Klobis usually merges together. The title cards are official too. You can see an example of the 4 images.. here. 07:57, February 10, 2013 (UTC) In that case, I highly suggest using only one image at best, the image that gives the best representation of the entire episode (maybe an image that matches the title). 10:45, February 10, 2013 (UTC) That would be one of the options on the poll. 20:12, February 10, 2013 (UTC) It doesn't matter if the collages are "doctored", the poll above means it was voted on to make an exception to that rule of the image guidelines in this case. I still think they work better as a collage in the infobox than spread out into 4 images in the often short (75% of episode articles are stubs) long summary (if the summary even exists). If we tried to use one image that "best represents the episode", we'd just get into 585 arguments about which image is "best". 18:30, February 11, 2013 (UTC) Then we will just use the title card, like the original message stated. 19:13, February 11, 2013 (UTC) Most likely we would only use 2 images in the summary anyway. The episode title cards are better to use in the infobox. SeaTerror (talk) 19:19, February 11, 2013 (UTC) What's so wrong with putting both the collages and the title cards in the infobox? 19:25, February 11, 2013 (UTC) Collages look bad and shouldn't be allowed. SeaTerror (talk) 19:43, February 11, 2013 (UTC) I don't like this idea. If we use 4 images in the summary then in no time there will be a whole gallery with an image for each frame of the episode. The title image is just the title over a plain background, it's not like a chapter cover, it doesn't even make sense to exist as image. The collage is more efficient to both summarize and represent the episode. Absolutely untrue. There would not be a gallery anywhere. The collage is bad because they always look bad because it is just 4 images merged together. SeaTerror (talk) 19:54, February 11, 2013 (UTC) There is no "official collage", it's just one guy with a lot of spare-time at Toei HQ who decided to pick his favorite 4 images, which actually sucks, that guy sucks. Collages were dumb from the beginning, the best way to represent an episode is to put the most significant and most symbolic image in it, like Naruto wikia does it. I agree with Levi. And Sewil, the choice of the most symbolic image will be hard, for sure… It's not hard at all. Mostly, you'll know what image to use just by looking at the episode title... I liked the idea you guys had about title cards. However, I did not like the idea of having images in the summary. Replacing the collages with title cards don't sound like a bright idea since they're usually just a background with Japanese text. Sometimes they move, sometimes they're black, and sometimes they're the same as other episodes. The collages are much better to keep out of everything. They don't look too bad. 20:34, February 11, 2013 (UTC) It's the exact same as having the chapter covers, it's a background image with Japanese text over it. You can barely see anything from the images in the collages, thus you can never have long-range shots in the episode collages (Which has been needed in many episodes). Did you also forget that title cards pops up in the preview of the previous episode? They are never black on the previews, if they even are at all (I think, like, 1 episode had a black background in marineford arc?) I think K-F added the black background. SeaTerror (talk) 20:49, February 11, 2013 (UTC) I've always had the "as many images as you need, but not more then you can afford" opinion on images. So despite my past dealings with images, the one thing I've never been for is opposing some sort of limit on how many pages EXACTLY you can have in a place. Sure I strive for a balance between not enough images and too many, but imposing a ultimate limit...? I read the previous discussion on this page and was left asking "why???". :-/ One-Winged Hawk (talk) 20:50, February 11, 2013 (UTC) :Consistency. @Sewil: they are not the same as the covers. Covers have an actual layout with an actual image on it. I rather remove the image from the infobox then instead of using title cards or just use one image. Title cards of the first 200 episode have all the same background. Also you said that the collages are just the work "one guy with a lot of spare-time who decided to pick his favourite 4 images", well isn't adding four images in the summary basically the same thing? In my opinion we can choose our four images, we use the "official" ones to simply avoid edit wars, but using a collage is just a layout choice, nothing more. @ST: given what happened with the opening/ending pages, I bet it won't pass much time before someone will propose to have an actual gallery of the "most significant images" of the episode, which will degenerate in a frame-by-frame gallery. @One-Winged Hawk: I agree with you, and if you were referring to my comment then I simply think that a gallery like that is just unneeded. The first 200 episodes don't have the same background... Not sure where you got that from. The title card is best, due to being the most official thing out there, and not needing an external program to merge images. 21:09, February 11, 2013 (UTC) @Levi: I already said I opposed the idea of images in the summary. What are you talking about? Why the hell is there a template, lol. I disagree at title cards being the best, since they don't really show anything. A big program isn't needed; you can make these collages in Microsoft Paint. These collages should be the only exceptions to our "no collage" rule, and it doesn't really make much sense to say that four images that actually happen in the episode show the episode less than a title card. 03:38, February 12, 2013 (UTC) Doesn't matter Nada. Still requires the merging of images, which is a stupid thing to do. Title card is best, just as chapter cover is best for the chapter. And you keep disregarding title cards like.. this. 03:52, February 12, 2013 (UTC) How exactly is merging images a stupid thing to do? It shows scenes of an episode all in one image. As for replacing them with title cards, that's one of the few unique ones. Many of the title cards, such as in the Fishman Island Arc, just show the island or the palace or something. There was even a couple black title cards in there. I still don't see how replacing an image that actually shows scenes of the episode with pictures that are hardly part of the episode at all is a better option. 06:39, February 12, 2013 (UTC) Because they have to be MERGED in order to work. Not everybody can merge the images, which is useless. As for one picture that isn't the title card, I'd be against that too. My choices are "Keep the Collages", or "Replace with Title Cards". 06:41, February 12, 2013 (UTC) :Not everybody can make templates. Not everybody can create a gif. Not everybody can write a long summary. Does that make those useless too? 03:16, February 17, 2013 (UTC) I vote title cards. But if people don't like a mere title, then one image to represent an entire episode. 06:52, February 12, 2013 (UTC) :Well, it has been a while, both new editors and old may have a change in mind since the first poll. Wanna put up a second poll? 06:53, February 12, 2013 (UTC) Yeah. I'll throw up the second poll. The preliminary stage at least. 06:59, February 12, 2013 (UTC) Add an option whether we should or shouldn't have images in the summary like part 2 or something. Also, add the "must have x edits and been here for x months" text. That's for when the poll starts. Other part is there. 07:17, February 12, 2013 (UTC) Hm. It kinda feels like two separate polls. Maybe we should have "If the option 1a loses, vote here:" And the options would be: 2a.Spreadout the episode images from here in the summary. 2b.Do not spreadout the episode images from here in the summary. Part 2 Poll *This poll will decide what we should use in the episode infoboxes. *The poll is now opened at February 14, 2013 at 01:00 (UTC). *The poll will last for 2 weeks, until February 28, 2013 at 01:00 (UTC). *To vote, you must've been here for at least 3 months and have at least 300 edits. *You may vote on both 1 AND 2. THE POLL IS NOW CLOSED. WE WILL HEREBY USE TITLE CARDS FOR THE EPISODE ARTICLES AND ADD IMAGES TO THE EPISODE SUMMARIES. 1a. Keep the Episode Collages (Example). # 05:44, February 14, 2013 (UTC) # # 18:58, February 14, 2013 (UTC) # # 01:32, February 15, 2013 (UTC) #Klobis (talk) 03:04, February 15, 2013 (UTC) 1b. Use a single image to represent the episode (Example). # # # 1c. Use the title card of the episode (Example). # 04:39, February 14, 2013 (UTC) #Monkey.D.Me (talk) 05:51, February 14, 2013 (UTC) # 07:03, February 14, 2013 (UTC)Zori # # 07:48, February 14, 2013 (UTC) #SeaTerror (talk) 19:53, February 14, 2013 (UTC) # 07:23, February 15, 2013 (UTC) # 11:31, February 16, 2013 (UTC) # 11:35, February 16, 2013 (UTC) # 19:40, February 21, 2013 (UTC) There is no specific poll option above required to vote below. 2a. Add images to the episode summaries of the articles. # 04:39, February 14, 2013 (UTC) # 05:44, February 14, 2013 (UTC) (A few more images to show an episode are a nice touch, but not too many) #Monkey.D.Me (talk) 05:51, February 14, 2013 (UTC) # 07:03, February 14, 2013 (UTC)Zori # (Instead of collage) # 07:48, February 14, 2013 (UTC) # 18:58, February 14, 2013 (UTC) #SeaTerror (talk) 19:53, February 14, 2013 (UTC) # 07:23, February 15, 2013 (UTC) (One or two max) # 11:31, February 16, 2013 (UTC) that's the only thing I prefer in other wikis. # 11:35, February 16, 2013 (UTC) # 19:40, February 21, 2013 (UTC) 2b. Do not add any images to the episode summaries of the articles. # #Klobis (talk) 03:04, February 15, 2013 (UTC) # Post-Poll Discussion I certainly hope this won't be a hassle. At this point, we have 585 episodes, and we're going to have at least four images throughout the article. In total, it's 2925 additional images. This can cause a loss of track of images while it happens, but the poll has decided. Good luck. 01:16, February 28, 2013 (UTC) So we're gonna work from the way down? From 585 all the way back to 1? And those fansubs do have their fansub titles there... 01:34, February 28, 2013 (UTC) Don't worry Yata. Sewil has all episodes Raw, so we'll have no problem getting the title cards raw, and I have most episodes soft subbed and some raw.. so nothing should be a problem for now. 01:50, February 28, 2013 (UTC) Now that we've had this for a little while, what is everyone's opinions on the episode pages now? Do they look better? 22:09, March 8, 2013 (UTC) Still need to get images onto the pages, but so far, just with the title card change, it's much better. 22:11, March 8, 2013 (UTC) Gotta say I disagree. It looks pretty good on newer pages, with the unique designs, but most just look a little boring. Like half of the Fishman Island or Water 7 are pretty much blue. 22:16, March 8, 2013 (UTC) That's why we need images in the summary. Well, I'm mostly giving my opinion on the infoboxes. Let's talk about this later, when the project is done. 22:19, March 8, 2013 (UTC) It is already done. The only thing left is the first 4 episode specials, which I don't have any raws to. He means images on the pages as well Sewil. 22:38, March 8, 2013 (UTC)